
The government shutdown continues and House Speaker Mike Johnson refuses to swear in an elected Democratic representative. President Trump believes he has the momentum to complete a peace deal between Russia and Ukraine.
Scott Simon, host:
We’re joined by senior political contributor Ron Elving. Ron, thank you so much for being with us.
RON ELVING, BYLINE: Great to be with you, Scott.
SIMON: Of course, there were major protests during the first Trump administration, including women’s marches, and many demonstrations against his immigration policies. How do these “No Kings” protests compare?
ELVING: The day after Trump’s first inauguration in 2017, nearly half a million people — most of them women — walked down the Mall in Washington. There were an estimated 400,000 in New York City, 250,000 in Chicago, and so on. But as we just heard, this year organizers are expecting crowds at more than 2,000 locations, and they hope attendance will be in the millions. Those previous protests were largely driven by abortion rights and women’s rights advocates. The current protests cover a wide range of issues – the rule of law, individual rights under the Constitution, and cuts to health and education funding. But at the same time, the fundamental issue today is the rejection of tyranny, the rejection of the rule of one person.
SIMON: We’re now on day 18 of the government shutdown. Will this become a confrontation, a closure unlike any other?
ELVING: In previous lockdowns, there were serious and sustained efforts to resolve the underlying issues, and to negotiate between the parties, to reach some kind of agreement. This is the difference. In the past, there was general agreement that the damage caused by the shutdown, and the damage to ordinary Americans, was more important than the control of one side or the other. There was a sense of an “us” – not just an “us” against them. We don’t see that now. Whatever the Democrats’ responsibility for this shutdown, at least here in the city, in D.C., they are ready to talk. The president and his party rejected this, saying there was nothing to negotiate. The House of Representatives has not held a voting session since the summer.
SIMON: House Speaker Mike Johnson is also refusing to swear in Representative-elect Adelita Grijalva. She won her special election in Arizona more than three weeks ago. Arizona’s attorney general is threatening legal action if she doesn’t take the oath. What reasons did the speaker give for the delay?
ELVING: Johnson said he didn’t want to swear in Ms Grijalva until the House was back in session so she could go through all the usual ceremonies. Except that earlier this year, he swore in two Republicans who were elected in special elections when the House was not in session — with or without ceremony. We can’t know what Mike Johnson thinks or hear his conversations with the president, but people are wondering whether the real difference here is that Grijalva’s swearing-in could cost Mike Johnson control of the Epstein files matter. Once you are a member, there will be a bipartisan majority on the petition to force a vote to release those files, something Mike Johnson fought hard to prevent.
SIMON: Trump’s former national security adviser, John Bolton, pleaded not guilty yesterday to charges of mishandling classified materials. What are your thoughts, Ron?
ELVING: We now hope to conduct an experiment to test whether Bolton shared confidential information in letters he sent to family members and kept copies of those letters at home. Another clue, of course, goes back to the piles of documents — many of them classified — that were found at Mar-a-Lago in 2017, all subject to a subpoena that Trump ignored after leaving office.
SIMON: And of course, Ron, we talked last week about President Trump’s success in the ceasefire agreement between Israel and Hamas. The president said yesterday that he believes the agreement provides momentum for talks between Russia and Ukraine. Does this seem to be the case?
Elving: This was a great hope for everyone who wanted to end these wars. But Trump has not yet been able to transfer his momentum in the Middle East to Ukraine. He has been pressuring Russia to come to the table. But this week, he had a phone call with Vladimir Putin, and afterward, he said he thought Putin wanted to reach a deal. Trump then sat down with Ukrainian President Zelensky in the Oval Office and poured cold water on the long-range missiles he talked about sharing with Ukraine. Obviously, this is a big disappointment for Zelensky.
SIMON: NPR’s Ron Elving. Thank you very much for being with us. Talk to you later.
ELVING: Thank you, Scott.
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